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Post by GC on Jul 12, 2024 14:07:12 GMT
As suggested by Servo.
Give us your top 5 and bottom 5 Pertwee stories then. And perhaps throw in what you think is the most underrated Pert story.
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Post by Servo on Jul 13, 2024 6:43:24 GMT
Top 5
Inferno Spearhead from Space Carnival of Monsters The Day of the Daleks The Mind of Evil
Bottom 5
Invasion of the Dinosaurs The Time Monster The Mutants Colony in Space The Monster of Peladon
Underrated: lots of contenders here but really it has to be The Claws of Axos. Bill Filer, Pigbin Josh and the Doctor and Jo being attacked by a bloke in a bag. It doesn’t get any better than that.
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Post by Future-Diver on Jul 13, 2024 10:08:46 GMT
Top: The Green Death The Time Monster The Daemons Spearhead From Space The Three Doctors
Bottom: The Monster Of Peladon Planet Of The Daleks Colony In Space The Mind Of Evil Frontier In Space
Underrated: Death To The Daleks
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Post by rapscallion on Jul 13, 2024 10:33:42 GMT
Best 5= 1. The Green Death 2. The Curse Of Peladon 3. Inferno 4. Day Of The Daleks 5. The Ambassadors Of Death
Bottom 5= 5. The Time Warrior 4. Planet Of The Spiders 3. Planet Of The Daleks 2. The Monster Of Peladon 1. The Mutants
Under-rated / Guilty Pleasures - The Time Monster & Colony In Space
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Post by heccy on Jul 14, 2024 1:04:31 GMT
Top Five.
Spearhead From Space.
The Claws of Axos.
Terror of The Autons.
The Curse of Peladon.
The Day of The Daleks.
Bottom.
Invasion of The Dinosaurs.
The Monster of Peladon.
Forgive me, but I can't pick many "Bottom" Perters stories.
Call it childhood nostalgia, but I love this era in Who.
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Post by Bowties on Jul 17, 2024 13:17:24 GMT
My top Pertwee stories:
Spearhead from Space,
Terror of the Autons,
Curse of Peladon,
The Three Doctors
And The Time Warrior.
Honourable mention to The Silurians, Inferno, Claws of Axos, Death to the Daleks and Planet of the Spiders.
If I had to pick one I’m not too keen on, I would say Ambassadors of Death.
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Post by GC on Jul 17, 2024 14:55:12 GMT
Top 5
The Daemons The Sea Devils The Three Doctors The Green death Inferno
Bottom 5
The Time Monster Frontier in Space Colony in Space The Monster of Peladon The Mutants
Underrated
Invasion of the Dinosaurs/Death to the Daleks
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Post by WildcatMatt on Jul 17, 2024 18:09:26 GMT
I’m going to cheat again, just a little.
Top Five Pertwee 5. Planet of the Spiders 4. The Curse of Peladon 3. Inferno 2a. Terror of the Autons 2b. Spearhead from Space 1. The Silurians
You could make a case that Planet of the Spiders is simultaneously the best and worst story of the Pertwee era. The extent to which they indulge Pertwee's affinity for gadgets is fatuous. The CSO is worse than usual. The humans on Metebelis are pathetic. But the Great Spider is chilling. Sarah Jane is in top form. And the way they work the crystal into the storyline is really nice not only as a callback and continuity but also it seems fitting that the third Doctor is done in ultimately by his own ego. If you ignore Cho-Je's accent and the too-comic musical sting, the regeneration scene is brilliantly done. It's amazing, really, that they encompassed an entire five year stint into one six-episode story.
The Curse of Peladon used to be an underappreciated story but I think it's gone up over time, and rightly so. The aliens are a little on the silly side but they're played with conviction and the central misdirection of whether the Ice Warriors are good or bad is played out extremely well. It's a masterclass in taking the ingredients for a small studio-bound story and turning it into something grand.
In The Tomb of the Cybermen, the Doctor tells Victoria that he can travel the “universe of time” which supports a multiverse/parallel dimension concept of spacetime. This of course allows one to be quite hand-wavey if one wants to allow parallel developments without explicit retconning; eg, the Daleks derived from Dals and the Daleks designed by Davros could be from different time tracks. Inferno is the first story that really tries to feel around the edges of this concept, and it’s brilliant. The mix of subtle and obvious differences between the two zones is well done, the various characters remain recognizable but still impacted by their environment. The Doctor having to abandon the alternate zone inhabitants is wrenching.
I’m going to pair the two Auton stories together as a tie for 2nd.
Spearhead has a lot of heavy lifting to do. It has to reintroduce the show in colour, establish the new Doctor, introduce the new companion, and reintroduce UNIT and establish it as the Doctor’s new base. That’s a tall order, and it succeeds on all fronts. Given what happened when Wiles and Tosh tried to retool the show, it’s amazing how this time everything went right. Okay, the Nestene in the coffin thing is a little weak but I’ll give it a pass.
As an introduction to the Master, Terror is fantastic. Roger Delgado is perfect here and the Autons are creepy as hell. That chair. The flowers. The doll. That CSO kitchen. And yet it finds a level and maintains it. Again, the arrival of the Nestenes is tacked-on and the Master’s last-second change of heart stretches things somewhat. But everything else works a treat.
Having The Silurians buried for so long because the colour masters had been lost is really unfortunate, because it’s absolutely brilliant. The third Doctor is already fully-formed here, Liz is spot-on, and the Brigadier is competent. A top-notch guest cast is the icing on the cake. Good premise, above-average monsters, and plot threads that come and go perfectly – enough to keep things moving but never too many at once.
Bottom Five Pertwee 5. Planet of the Daleks 4. The Mutants 3. The Monster of Peladon 2. Death to the Daleks 1. Colony in Space
Terry, Terry, Terry... You're simultaneously the best and worst thing to ever happen to 'Who. Without the Daleks, the show would never have made it out of its first season. But overexposure and trying to shop the pepperpots internationally plays a part in the show's archive status, and he manages simultaneously to retcon things that might be easy to keep consistent but also endlessly recycle elements. This story is where the long downward slide begins for the Daleks. They're less cunning and conniving and more robotic in nature. And invisibility would give the Daleks an edge until everyone started wearing goggles since they'll still give off heat or an RF signature. It gets worse before it gets better, and never really reaches the heights of the mid-60s.
We eventually get a much better story about space politics in the form of Frontier in Space and even that one's pretty heavy handed. The Mutants, though, is as subtle as a brick. Everything that takes place on the space station is utterly predictable. The action on the planet surface is much better but the result is very uneven. That the Marshal looks like Rush Limbaugh in Space on its own is bad even though it isn't the actor's fault.
The Curse of Peladon is a treasure. Cool, weird aliens. Ice Warriors with questionable aims. Palace intrigue. So I totally get why Letts and Dicks wanted to go back to the well. And a "revisit this prior setting" hadn't happened in a while so it seemed a safe bet. If it had been a 4-parter to keep it a smaller story -- or if this was our first visit to Peladon -- it probably would be okay. But what we get doesn't add to Peladon lore, it subtracts, and that makes me sad.
Death to the Daleks was the first Dalek story I ever saw in its entirety. So I have a soft spot for the silver and black livery which I think looks quite good on them. Unfortunately, Pertwee's disdain for them shines through in every scene and it's really the only time when he just doesn't look invested in his character. Everyone but the director and Lis are sleepwalking through this story and it shows. Let me get my Space Antidote for my Space Plague and get on with reading my Space Newspaper...
For the first time off Earth in the Pertwee era, this is unaccountably weaksauce. Having the Master in it probably has a lot to do with it, he's overexposed at this point and even one story without him would have been refreshing. There are too many elements vying for screen time and they aren't spread out very well. Not a fan.
Underrated Pertwee Invasion of the Dinosaurs
Yes, as a matter of fact I did just rewatch this recently so it's fairly fresh. The T.Rex puppet is a travesty and in full-length shots that neck join is an abomination. But the other dinos, while rather static, aren't any worse than any other DW monster. The flying dinos, in fact, I think are done quite well. And Mac Hulke's storyline is both bonkers and brilliant. It treads dangerously close to Enemy of the World in places but never crosses the line. Sarah Jane is smart and resourceful, and Sgt. Benton arranging for the Doctor to disable him is nice touch to remind us how far the UNIT family has come in five years.
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Post by WildcatMatt on Jul 17, 2024 18:11:48 GMT
Not much love for Monster of Peladon on this thread, I see!
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 17, 2024 20:54:02 GMT
Let's see...
Faves:
Spearhead From Space Terror of the Autons The Daemons The Time Monster The Three Doctors (Patrick Troughton absolutely STEALS this story!)
The Time Warrior
Least fave:
Colony In Space The Mutants Planet of the Daleks The Green Death The Monster Of Paladon
You know, I might have listed any of the 7-parters from season 7... except, the last time I watched them, I tried to watch them over 7 DAYS apiece, instead of plowing thru them as movies (and I only have the movie edits). The Silurians and The Ambassadors of Death, if watched over, at a minimum, 14 DAYS.... really, really works, if you focus on not the stories being told, but on the Doctor's personal story arc.
He spent most of Spearhead hoping he wasn't really stuck on Earth, then resigning himself to it. (And, as it was before Barry Letts came on, Pertwee actually spent all 4 episodes chanelling Patrick Troughton. Anyone else ever notice that?) Silurians was (thanks to Philly's channel 17) the FIRST tv story I ever saw, and while I liked Liz, and I really liked The Brigadier, I DID NOT like the apparent "hero" of the show, who had this arrogant egotistical attitude, and an angry chip on his shoulder. In The Silurians, you really see how this doesn't work for him, as he's not communicating with The Brigadier, and by story's end, The Brig does something he's shocked and deeply offended by. But if he'd been working closer with the guy, that ending might never have happened. At the start of Ambassadors, he's pretty pissed off... but, you wonder, could he really be pissed off at HIMSELF? That story's a long, hard, confusing running in circles kind of thing... until he goes into space to find out what's really happenning. When you get to the last episode, things finally turn around. The Doctor saves the day, the real villain who's lost his mind is arrested, and the Doctor walks off... SMILING for the first time in 14 episodes. And when Inferno starts, he's SINGING as he drives.
As a kid (and sometimes, even as a teen), I had a hard time catching any TV show 5 times a week, which is how 17 ran it here initially (BUTCHERED to make room for more commercial breaks). I never saw the 2nd HALF of Silurians, and missed the middle HALF of Ambassadors! No wonder they didn't "work" for me in the early 70s. Inferno was the 1st story I saw all the way thru. So I've seen it more times than any other WHO story. That's the main reason I can barely stand it now. I've just seen it to often.
When Pertwee's stories went BACK into syndication in the mid-80s, a third of Pertwee's were missing, as they only put out those they had COMPLETE AND IN COLOR. (For no reason I can figure, that did not include Spearhead.) But, a year later... all the rest went out (with the EXCEPTION of Planet of the Daleks part 3 and Invasion of the Dinosaurs part 1-- wouldn't you know-- the BEST episodes of each of those 2 stories). I didn't see those 2 MISSING individual episodes until a few years ago-- on YOUTUBE. But Spearhead became a top all-time fave the first time I saw it... as did The Time Warrior.
Generally, I don't like 6 parters...but during Tom Baker's run, they figured out how to make them work. However, Frontier In Space surprised me for the way it's stuctured. It actually didn't get boring. DAMNED SHAME the "2nd half" was crap from start to finish.
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Post by rapscallion on Jul 18, 2024 11:00:22 GMT
Not much love for Monster of Peladon on this thread, I see! The one that's taken me a tad by surprise and that I thought would have a bit more appreciation round these parts is Colony In Space. It didn't make it into my Top 5 Pertwee's due to the amount of classics to choose from in this era, but it definitely wouldn't be anywhere near the bottom. Love that one!
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Post by Servo on Jul 18, 2024 11:23:54 GMT
Not much love for Monster of Peladon on this thread, I see! The one that's taken me a tad by surprise and that I thought would have a bit more appreciation round these parts is Colony In Space. It didn't make it into my Top 5 Pertwee's due to the amount of classics to choose from in this era, but it definitely wouldn't be anywhere near the bottom. Love that one! I can tell you why I don’t rate it much rapscallion. I didn’t see it on its original transmission or repeat here in Australia. My only familiarity with the story came from the Target novelisation (Doctor Who and the Doomsday Weapon). I must confess I liked that version. Fast forward to the middle 80’s and the ABC go on an epic repeat run and show every Pertwee (including some for the first time ever). Colony in Space was broadcast and I watched it for the first time and was really disappointed. It was really dull. Half of one episode is taken up with a fist fight. So for me it’s always been a major disappointment compared to the novelisation.
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 18, 2024 12:06:27 GMT
I can tell you why I don’t rate it much rapscallion. It was really dull. I first saw it on Channel 17 here, one episode a day, and this was one I did see all the way through.
It doesn't get good at all until "The Adjudicator" shows up. Heh heh heh.
Roger Delgado has one of his most shining moments in the series in part six. He really does.
But you have to sit through 5 whole episodes BEFORE you get to that!
The 2 guest leads-- the leader of the colony (the SAME guy who'd played the main villain in "The Aztecs"!!!) and "Captain Dent" (what a SICK B******!) have always stuck out in my head, to the point that, whenever I see either actor in anything else, I always think of this. ("Captain Dent", I believe, played "Barrymore" in the Barry Letts-Terrence Dicks-Tom Baker "Hound of the Baskervilles".)
This is also the 1st time Jo goes into space. It's nuts how she says she thought it was all a game and the Doctor was making it up. It's no wonder Jo took so long to really grow on me. If you watch all of her stories, the writing on her can be VERY inconsistent. It really does seem some of the writers were writing for some OTHER kind of character. (It's only in recent years I actually started to like her more than Sarah. NEVER saw that coming.)
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 18, 2024 12:11:15 GMT
"Underrated" ? I dunno...
The Mind Of Evil
For a 6-parter, this one DOESN'T tend to get dull as many do. Also, The Master is FABULOUS, and Jo Grant really shines. she seems much more "together" in this than in several of her other stories.
My copy's in B&W. Thanks, BBC. (It WAS in color in the early 70s.) Have they colorized this again? I imagine they have, but... well there yo go.
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Post by Servo on Jul 18, 2024 12:25:38 GMT
"Underrated" ? I dunno...
The Mind Of Evil
For a 6-parter, this one DOESN'T tend to get dull as many do. Also, The Master is FABULOUS, and Jo Grant really shines. she seems much more "together" in this than in several of her other stories.
My copy's in B&W. Thanks, BBC. (It WAS in color in the early 70s.) Have they colorized this again? I imagine they have, but... well there yo go.
This was banned by the ABC until the mid 80’s. I’d also never read the Target book (it probably wasn’t out by then) so I had no expectations. I couldn’t get over how gritty and grim it was and the body count in the last episode seemed extremely high. Damian Shanahan went looking for a colour copy in Guam at the behest of the Ginger Ninja (back before people hadn’t twigged what he was really like) to no avail.* *Or so the story goes, although Damian mentioned this story so there’s probably a huge slab of truth to it.
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