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Post by Cyggy on Mar 4, 2022 0:02:42 GMT
Please rate and discuss this story here.....
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Post by Cyggy on Mar 7, 2022 7:20:42 GMT
Poor Colin. What a right mess this ending to one of the most important seasons of Classic Who was. They had 18 months to plan this season, but everything went wrong, of course. Robert Holmes' death. Saward's walkout.
Pip and Jane do their best of course - and credit to them for producing a complete episode that could go before the cameras in record time.
Such extraordinary effort on their part deserves to end in triumph, but it doesn't. It's just a convoluted mess.
Did any of the actors, including Colin know or understand what the heck was going on, plot wise, in this last instalment? Am betting they didn't - any more than the average viewer did.
Have not read the Saward version of this episode properly, but I doubt it is much better than this one?
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Post by johnnybear on Mar 23, 2022 16:13:02 GMT
The idea that the Valeyard was a future Doctor was fantastic but they chickened out and just changed the premise to a future Doctor's evil side coming back to defeat and take over the physical bodies of the remaining regenerations! I had an idea that in story-wise when the David Tennant Doctor regenerated or avoided the full change it somehow created the Valeyard who was bitter at not being able to live his life and then him becoming a sort of wraith like persona out to destroy himself by attacking a Doctor of whom he had no respect! JB
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Post by Cyggy on Jul 6, 2022 13:27:35 GMT
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Post by Cyggy on Jul 8, 2022 11:42:02 GMT
On Robert Holmes' outline for episode 13, before Eric took over and finished it for him.... And we likely missed out on a Bob Holmes novelisation too, sadly, following his "The Two Doctors" book... From "Robert Holmes: A Life in Words" by Richard Molesworth
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Post by johnnybear on Jul 13, 2022 8:01:46 GMT
A brilliant idea now somewhat ruined by the series continuing on for as long as it has but a final thirteenth Doctor full of resentment and bitterness, about to die at the end of his final life was fantastic! I'd rather have Michael Jayston as the thirteenth Doctor than Jerdeh anyday! JB
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Post by Servo on Jul 13, 2022 10:23:03 GMT
A real mess sadly.
Sort of indicative of what was going on behind the scenes though.
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Post by Cyggy on Jul 24, 2022 2:54:25 GMT
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Post by Cyggy on Jul 30, 2022 3:03:45 GMT
At least "The Stage & Television Today" gave it a good review at the time....
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Post by johnnybear on Jul 30, 2022 7:08:19 GMT
It's madness that they never brought the Valeyard back! A fantastic special could have been produced with Michael Jayston returning along with all the surviving actors and the plot being each Doctor has been removed from time and his memories seem to be evaporating. It's not like it's been done before is it? They could have explained the fact that the original three Doctors having passed away some time earlier in real life had already been removed from time and space by the Valeyard and he had or was draining them of their life forces in his lair while the surviving Doctors could be planning to storm his castle and rescue them! Outside his old enemies, the Daleks, the Cybermen, the Autons etc would be waiting to derail his attempts to saving his older selves and capture them also for the Valeyard's schemes! Instead we get hack writers who invent baddies we not interested in or past incarnations of the Doctor that don't exist and the like...I'm sure Jayston would have been interested in the chance to reprise the role back in the day. I'm sure he was to have squared off against Sylvester's Doctor in a Jack The Ripper story back in 1990. Rant over! JB
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Post by Cyggy on Aug 1, 2022 21:13:16 GMT
Radio Times letters of the time....
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Post by Cyggy on Aug 1, 2022 21:16:13 GMT
And a Starburst Magazine review of the entire season.... Interview pdf
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Post by Cyggy on Sept 20, 2022 10:33:20 GMT
And then this happened, of course..... Chris Chibnall on Open Air 1986Related Thread:Chibnall
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Post by johnnybear on Sept 28, 2022 7:02:19 GMT
Spiteful looking teenager or whatever age he was. How dare he condemn The Trial of A Time Lord when he has produced so much more crap in the series run than that!!! Not that I've ever seen even a second of it and I just listen to the podcasts or read the comments left by people who still give or gave a damn! JB
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Post by GC on Sept 8, 2023 4:44:59 GMT
I remember enjoying episode 13 far more than episode 14. I was glad of the Master popping up in it and was gobsmacked by the Valeyard revelation at the time. Quite excited by it all and couldn't wait for the next episode..... which then just went promptly down the pan. Yes as Cyggy said above just a convoluted mess. The Valeyard ended up coming across to me as a sort of rip-off of the Master, what with adopting that Popplewick disguise (thinking back on it, all that inside the Matrix stuff felt a little bit like a rip-off of The Deadly Assassin didn't it) They wimped out went and undid Peri's death which was a big cop out. I did like the ending though but even that through up more questions - was the Valeyard the Keeper of the Matrix all along? or was he impersonating him or had he taken over his body like the Master did with Tremas? Speaking of the Keeper of the Matrix always amused me that he kept that great key thing kinda round his neck like a Latchkey Kid...
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