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Post by Cyggy on Mar 3, 2022 23:55:30 GMT
Please rate and discuss this story here.....
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Post by Cyggy on Mar 7, 2022 17:26:01 GMT
Mixed feelings again on this one. While it's nice to see Troughton (and Jamie) back, it's maybe not the best story to involve them in. Too much hot sun, Sontaran actors looking horribly uncomfortable in those costumes in that heat. Too much Shockeye. Seeing Troughton turned into an Androgum gets a little silly I think. A bit of a mess overall maybe?
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Post by GC on Mar 20, 2022 5:21:31 GMT
Always found this story a bit of a disappointment. Could've done with a bit more Trout in it and having him not being tied up/sidelined halfway through. Certainly could've done without him turning into an Androgum which I found very silly. The direction is uninspiring and some of violent stuff's unnecessary and jars.
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Post by johnnybear on Mar 26, 2022 7:33:19 GMT
The continuity of Troughton's Doctor also takes a whack here too! Robert Holmes and Terrance Dicks had both worked on the 68/69 series so should have known the Second Doctor inside and out and yet use him here as though he is the Third Doctor and knowledge of The Time Lords is flapping about like there is no tomorrow. Even Jamie knows of them, which he didn't in the War Games and is it a series 6B setting? Could be but that mention of Victoria and a fully operational TARDIS for Troughton don't fit together! The Sontarans are six footers and look like guys wearing masks, even Derek Deadman's Stor looked better to be honest! JB
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Post by GC on Jul 6, 2022 21:50:36 GMT
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Post by Cyggy on Jul 7, 2022 0:21:04 GMT
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Post by GC on Jul 8, 2022 5:54:11 GMT
Strange why they had Tony Selby there when Glitz wasn't in this story:
Doctor Who: The Two Doctors Event
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Post by Future-Diver on Jul 8, 2022 6:19:39 GMT
"Dastari, I have no doubt you could augment an earwig to the point where it understood nuclear physics, but it'd still be a very stupid thing to do!"
Say what you like but I find The Two Doctors very entertaining - Robert Holmes and cannibalism, the Second Doctor and Jamie, Jacqueline Pearce and sunny Spain, Shockeye of the Quawncing Grig, Oscar and Anita, Dastari and the bloody tall Sontarans! Mad but never dull.
I confess, I did enjoy how gruesome the show was during Season 22 - check out this wonderfully grisly line of dialogue, delivered perfectly by Mr Baker: "That is the smell of death, Peri. Ancient musk, heavy in the air. Fruit-soft flesh, peeling from white bones. The unholy, unburiable smell of Armageddon."
7/10
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Post by Cyggy on Aug 15, 2022 12:27:21 GMT
Can't help thinking that this one's crying out for a caption....
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Post by sadako on Aug 15, 2022 15:33:26 GMT
By Season 22 standards, there's a few things that elevate it to a cut above, but also typically some moments of sheer nastiness that just sour the whole experience.
Because it's Robert Holmes writing it, there is more of a shrewd understanding of believable character motivation propelling the action than usual, though the pace is still rather slack. The atmosphere on the deserted space station with the sinister computer is superb and I would've been happy were the whole story set there.
I must admit though, I've never quite liked the eugenics angle to it, where the Doctor insists the Androgums are impossible to enlighten and will always have bad blood. Something about that always left a bad taste in my mouth.
Frankly I think were it just a two-parter about Colin, Peri and Jamie, teaming up and rescuing the Second Doctor, it could've been quite a fun romp, and ended in a natural climax with the fight with the Sontarans at the beginning of episode 3.
Unfortunately it then carries on rather aimlessly and then takes a needlessly nasty turn with the death of Oscar (particularly nasty how the Doctor is contrived to be too late on the scene to stop it).
On some level I am okay with the Doctor having to finish Shockeye. It was self-defence I guess, but in the context of this particular era it just feels like the show has developed the most confused morality ever. Why is Shockeye such a threat to life he needs eliminating and yet the Master isn't? Why is the Doctor allowed to resort to lethal force to defend himself here, and yet the humans in Warriors of the Deep apparently aren't?
It also feels like the show has lost a sense of wider stakes or heroism, and that I think is another reason fans don't take to this moment. This Doctor has often been too nasty to root for his survival alone, and in this story he does little to make him heroic or endearing to us. He's still being a right bully to Peri.
It's complicated though. I think Season 22 would be in some ways a poorer season without it, but I can't say the same for its place in Holmes' portfolio.
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Post by WildcatMatt on Aug 16, 2022 3:08:02 GMT
This is a story that on paper, from a distance, should be a winner: Penned by Robert Holmes with Sontarans, the Second Doctor, and Jamie with a Sixth Doctor still in his prickly phase. And while Peter Moffat isn't as sharp as Graeme Harper, he isn't as flaccid as Chris Clough either. So for my money the product manages to be less than the sum of its parts.
I know I have a visceral dislike for the the chase sequence; Oscar's death was both pointless and gratuitous. In general once we get off the space station the story and pace unravels, which makes me think that as much trouble as they had adapting to the cadence of 2x45min there was no hope for getting 3x45min right especially with the rewrite to accommodate the location change. But even then, structurally, the fun of multi-Doctor stories is the interplay between the incarnations and this story keeps them apart for way too long. Additionally, while it is a bit interesting to see Peri and Jamie together, this is also ultimately a mistake. Having the old companion with the new Doctor is always a cheat because Colin's Doctor knows Jamie whereas we'd get a much more interesting character interplay by putting Pat's Doctor with Peri.
I'd very much like to read Holmes' first draft with the original location before Eric Saward put his hands on it.
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Post by GC on Feb 16, 2023 23:58:44 GMT
That jacket potato doesn't look very appetising...
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Post by Black Orchid on Jul 28, 2023 20:29:28 GMT
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 31, 2023 20:58:25 GMT
Why is Shockeye such a threat to life he needs eliminating and yet the Master isn't? Why is the Doctor allowed to resort to lethal force to defend himself here, and yet the humans in Warriors of the Deep apparently aren't?
Alright, alright, alright, I'm gonna ANSWER these questions. Because I'm genuinely tired of them being brought up.
And I'm just "in a mood".
Because ROBERT HOLMES wrote this story, and he F***ING KNEW what the hell he was doing.
And those other stories WEREN'T.
Yes. It's that simple.
Basically: JNT & Eric Saward: F*** OFF, the both of you.
There's only TWO stories in season 22 I like-- this one, and "REVELATION". At only 38% of the episodes, that's PATHETIC.
And 15% of the season are 4 of my LEAST-FAVORITE episodes in the entire 26 seasons. I'm sure everyone here can guess which 4.
Have a nice day, everybody! Remember, if you have these on disc, it makes it even easier to watch the ones you like, and SKIP the CRAP.
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Post by GC on Aug 13, 2024 14:04:31 GMT
The Doctor Who 1980's Twitter/X account (that chronicles the making of each story) has reached 1984 and The Two Doctors... {Spoiler} Thought for a second Colin had nothing on.
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