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Post by Future-Diver on Jul 16, 2024 18:22:10 GMT
I agree that the first episodes ( An Unearthly Child) is an incredible piece of TV drama, but strongly disagree with the received wisdom that the subsequent caveman episodes are mediocre and not really worth bothering with. In the following three episodes, we get to see the very first Tardis team working/bonding together, some great character moments, their struggle with the Stone Age tribe and Ian and Barbara's distress at being stranded in a grim and violent past with Hartnell's morally ambiguous Doctor (very much the anti-hero at this stage). Yes, I can see that after such a strong opening episode, following it up with scenes of grunting cave dwellers arguing over making fire is a bit of a let-down, but it's still fascinating to see those episodes as part of the very early days and development of Doctor Who, before the introduction of the Daleks and all the other more recognizably Sci Fi elements. I'll grant you that in terms of the initial bonding of the crew, but yes, going from the high concepts of the first episode to grunting cavemen nattering about "I remember how the meat and fire join together" is an enormous letdown. Yes, I certainly do find it a let down but not an enormous one - they still have some merit. It's silly, I know, but I look upon those episodes almost like an extended, 3 part prelude to ' The Daleks' - "Fire will kill us all in the end". To have an idea of what Season 1 would have been like if they'd skipped the Stone Age and jumped straight from meeting the Doctor to landing on Skaro , you only have to read David Whittaker's novelisation; ' Doctor Who in an Exciting Adventure with the Daleks ' (1964). Now I love this alternate take on events ( A Meeting On The Common, etc) but I still prefer the original television version, cavemen and all.
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Post by Servo on Jul 17, 2024 10:00:37 GMT
I’m afraid I’m in the corner of Matt and the Prof on An Unearthly Child.
The first episode is good, but the rest really does suck.
It does start off a Hartnell tradition in the very first story, a great (or good) first episode, then the rest of the story lets it all down.
The really strange thing is that three of the main offenders for this tradition all exist.
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Post by Future-Diver on Jul 17, 2024 12:42:13 GMT
I’m afraid I’m in the corner of Matt and the Prof on An Unearthly Child. The first episode is good, but the rest really does suck. "If you could touch the alien sand and hear the cries of strange birds and watch them wheel in another sky, would that satisfy you?"I get it - people were expecting to be taken to some far off future or an exotic alien world, but all they got were Stone Age politics, filmed in pokey Lime Grove Studios. But I still find these three episodes worthwhile, engaging and thoroughly enjoyable. Each to their own.
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Post by Bowties on Jul 17, 2024 13:08:39 GMT
My top Hartnell stories:
An Unearthly Child,
The Daleks’s Masterplan,
The Chase,
The Massacre
And the Daleks Invasion of Earth.
Honourable mention to The Tenth Planet, The Daleks and the Myth Makers.
I suppose I’m not much of a fan of the Web Planet, but no one seems to be.
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Post by rapscallion on Jul 17, 2024 13:26:46 GMT
I suppose I’m not much of a fan of the Web Planet, but no one seems to be. Erm, excuse me 😆😆😉
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Post by heccy on Jul 17, 2024 14:07:50 GMT
I suppose I’m not much of a fan of the Web Planet, but no one seems to be. Erm, excuse me 😆😆😉 I like The Web Planet
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Post by rapscallion on Jul 17, 2024 14:13:58 GMT
I’m afraid I’m in the corner of Matt and the Prof on An Unearthly Child. The first episode is good, but the rest really does suck. "If you could touch the alien sand and hear the cries of strange birds and watch them wheel in another sky, would that satisfy you?"I get it - people were expecting to be taken to some far off future or an exotic alien world, but all they got were Stone Age politics, filmed in pokey Lime Grove Studios. But I still find these three episodes worthwhile, engaging and thoroughly enjoyable. Each to their own. I totally agree with you, FD. An Unearthly Child may not be the most exciting story, but I find it one of the most remarkable, that this is where it all began. I watch the whole 4 episodes annually every November. It's one of my most watched stories, and I find it quite magical. While I can understand that some people may find the latter 3 episodes a bit dull I think that the story being sparse in some areas, with very few characters, a small plotline, and grunting cave-people with limited dialogue, allowed the spotlight to focus on the four principal characters, all of which were brand new to everyone. And let's not forget the TARDIS itself, brand spanking new to everybody, and a character in itself. It's a place of wonder in Episode 1 for being able to transport Barbara and Ian from 1963 to 100,000BC, and is mentioned as somewhere they desperately want to return to in the next few episodes, but it's only after their lives are in deadly peril that the TARDIS is shown to be this wondrous heavenly sanctuary, a safe refuge from everything cold and dark and dangerous outside. This story is not 'The Rescue' or 'The Chase', for instance, where we were just getting to know one new companion. Here we were being introduced to the whole ensemble. And the Doctor, Susan, Barbara and Ian are too busy sussing each other out, distrustful of each other, and each other's motives. As a whole An Unearthly Child may be slow-paced, but it allowed for better focus on the 4 main characters than a busier plot would have permitted.
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Post by rapscallion on Jul 17, 2024 14:15:31 GMT
I like The Web Planet We stand shoulder to shoulder
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Post by GC on Jul 17, 2024 14:33:05 GMT
I like The Web Planet We stand shoulder to shoulder With earplugs at the ready
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Post by Future-Diver on Jul 17, 2024 15:12:30 GMT
"If you could touch the alien sand and hear the cries of strange birds and watch them wheel in another sky, would that satisfy you?"I get it - people were expecting to be taken to some far off future or an exotic alien world, but all they got were Stone Age politics, filmed in pokey Lime Grove Studios. But I still find these three episodes worthwhile, engaging and thoroughly enjoyable. Each to their own. I totally agree with you, FD. An Unearthly Child may not be the most exciting story, but I find it one of the most remarkable, that this is where it all began. I watch the whole 4 episodes annually every November. It's one of my most watched stories, and I find it quite magical. While I can understand that some people may find the latter 3 episodes a bit dull I think that the story being sparse in some areas, with very few characters, a small plotline, and grunting cave-people with limited dialogue, allowed the spotlight to focus on the four principal characters, all of which were brand new to everyone. And let's not forget the TARDIS itself, brand spanking new to everybody, and a character in itself. It's a place of wonder in Episode 1 for being able to transport Barbara and Ian from 1963 to 100,000BC, and is mentioned as somewhere they desperately want to return to in the next few episodes, but it's only after their lives are in deadly peril that the TARDIS is shown to be this wondrous heavenly sanctuary, a safe refuge from everything cold and dark and dangerous outside. This story is not 'The Rescue' or 'The Chase', for instance, where we were just getting to know one new companion. Here we were being introduced to the whole ensemble. And the Doctor, Susan, Barbara and Ian are too busy sussing each other out, distrustful of each other, and each other's motives. As a whole An Unearthly Child may be slow-paced, but it allowed for better focus on the 4 main characters than a busier plot would have permitted. Thank you, rapscallion - I thought I was the only one! "...I find it quite magical." - Yes, exactly. Well said. I should also mention that I quite fancy cave girl 'Hur' (Alethea Charlton - see also 'The Time Meddler'), which does help my appreciation of the episodes.
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Post by markhev1966 on Jul 22, 2024 1:00:26 GMT
Top 5 The Crusade (CRIMINAL its the only one with missing eps in season 2) Marco Polo (based on the recon) An Unearthly Child The Gunfighters (I don't care; I do) The Romans
Bottom 5 The Chase I REALLY struggle to get through this one Planet of Giants (especially that dog turd Levine edited together) Celestial Toymaker (Only here to make up the numbers) Galaxy 4 (Only here to make up the numbers) The Sensorites (Only here to make up the numbers)
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Post by WildcatMatt on Jul 23, 2024 19:14:01 GMT
Bottom 5 Planet of Giants (especially that dog turd Levine edited together) I'll write more about this in a separate post sometime but I really appreciated Ian's recreation of the original Parts 3-4. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't change my opinion of it much, but it made it abundantly clear that the decision to edit it down was absolutely correct. And it also drives home how hamfisted many of the edits were. One almost wonders why they bothered to bounce it down to 35mm for editing.
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 23, 2024 22:24:45 GMT
I know it's perverse... but as much as I can enjoy the REALLY DARK "NOIR"-ish MY DARLING CLEMENTINE... and the more straight-forward "classic western" GUNFIGHT AT THE OK CORRAL...and even the overly-ambitious TOMBSTONE which, frankly, just tries to cram TOO DAMNED much into its running time...
"The Gunfighters" is my FAVORITE version of the Wyatt Earp story. I mean, who could have seen that coming, especially when back in the 80s you had certain fanatical fanboys insisting it was "the worst DOCTOR WHO of all time"? (Not even close. For the classic 26 seasons, I put "Timelash" in that spot. EVERYTHING about that one is bad. On every level. You just don't see every single aspect of a production go wrong at the same time like that very often. Such a pity, it's wedged between 2 of my all-time favorite stories. But "Revelation" is 2nd on the videotape, which means I have to fast-forward over that piece of TRASH to watch it, every time. which makes me hate it even more.)
It's also my favorite version of Doc Holliday. It's so rotten, the way he manouvers The Doctor into going down to the salloon wearing his gun... and it's only his girlfriend coming to the Doctor's rescue that the poor guy gets out of there alive!
Later, though, I love when Dodo pulls a gun on him, and he agrees to take her back to Tombstone. THEN reveals he'd decided NOT to just SHOOT her.
Then there's the bit where someone hands The Doctor a gun while he's in jail... and instead of using it, he calmly hands it to Earp, saying, "Would you mind taking this? People keep handing me guns!" The look on Earp's face is priceless.
But my favorite scene has to be when Bat Masterson arrives, and Earp introduces him to his new deputy... "Oh, that's right! You haven't met POP here!" "I say, would you MIND not-- calling me POP??"
I was delighted recently to find out, John Alderson also played "Little John" on THE TIME TUNNEL! One of my favorite episodes of that series.
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 23, 2024 22:28:39 GMT
Some years back, I saw CAT BALLOU (1965) with Jane Fonda. And I realized that movie HAD to be where "The Gunfighters" got the idea for having singing accompany the story for the whole length of it.
What makes it even funnier is... one of the singers is Stubby Kaye... who later turned up in "Delta and the Bannermen".
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Post by WildcatMatt on Jul 24, 2024 18:10:25 GMT
Some years back, I saw CAT BALLOU (1965) with Jane Fonda. And I realized that movie HAD to be where "The Gunfighters" got the idea for having singing accompany the story for the whole length of it.
What makes it even funnier is... one of the singers is Stubby Kaye... who later turned up in "Delta and the Bannermen".
I'm too lazy to go dig up the reference but I believe the way the song was used was a last-minute decision by Rex Tucker. Perhaps that's where he got the inspiration.
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