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Post by dsjr on Oct 14, 2024 8:44:29 GMT
Loved it then and love it now. Biggest surprise was Nicholas Parsons, who acted so very well, as I only remembered him as the over-suave and to me, buttock clenching quiz master on 'Sale of The century.' So far, the commentary seems more up-beat as well. An easy 10/10 from me. I'll leave it to others to deep-dive into the story
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Post by rapscallion on Oct 14, 2024 10:23:36 GMT
Loved it then and love it now. Biggest surprise was Nicholas Parsons, who acted so very well, as I only remembered him as the over-suave and to me, buttock clenching quiz master on 'Sale of The century.' So far, the commentary seems more up-beat as well. An easy 10/10 from me. I'll leave it to others to deep-dive into the story Agreed, easily the highlight of the McCoy era for me.
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 14, 2024 15:57:20 GMT
This is one that has so much potential. But, like too many of the others from this era, there are SERIOUS problems with the writing. It just happens that between the story, the dialogue, the acting, the locations, etc., and the fact that so many other stories in the 80s were, frankly, TERRIBLE from start to finish, you DON'T notice the problems here so much. It's kinda like YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE (1967). So MUCH about that movie is so INCREDIBLY, SPECTACULARLY well-done... it disguises some very serious story problems. You can watch and watch and watch for years before you notice... "Hey, wait a minute, this DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!!!"
Sophie Aldred is absolutely spot-on about how unusual it is to let the companion be so much at the forefront. When I think of how terrible I thought her character was in " Dragonfire", but then how it turned around and I LIKED her in " Remembrance", and liked her more thru " Greatest Show", " Happiness" and " Nemesis"... wow. This seriously had NOT happened since Verity Lambert was the producer.
I don't mean to be a downer here. As I said, there's so much good here. The problem, as I see it, is the writer-- who also did "Dragonfire"-- had the "amateur" problem of trying to cram in TOO MUCH stuff, not allowing any of it to develop as much as it should have, and some of it, simply not being explained properly. The result is, after MULTIPLE viewings over the years, some KEY elements, most of which come up at the climax, make NO SENSE AT ALL. And it's enough to almost (not quite, but almost) DERAIL what was, potentially, a GREAT story. Clearly, most fans don't notice the problems, so they do feel it's great. Maybe I'm cursed by being a writer myself. I see problems most people don't.
Basically... the idea that Ace is somehow a "pawn" of the "Evil from the dawn of time"... HOW? In WHAT way? This is intended to look clever-- more clever than it is-- by tying in "Dragonfire" with "Silver Nemesis" and "Fenric". BUT IT DOESN'T. It doesn't WORK, it doesn't MAKE sense, AT ALL. Ian Briggs (I can never remember his name, I had to look it up) had potential, but was too inexperienced, too much an "amateur fanboy", and suffered from NOT having a FAR-more experienced story editor "fixing" this seemingly-insignificant but to me, quite MAJOR problem in his scripts.
I don't hate the story. I'm just disappointed with the climax. I'm also reminded of the multitude of people over the years who've always insisted, "Oh, you have to see the EXTENDED version!" Well, that may be so, but that's a BULLS*** excuse. And one more I can pin down to JNT & Andrew Cartmel. You DON'T over-write and then over-edit to fit the time slot, in effect REMOVING key plot points so it doesn't make sense AS BROADCAST. And it seems nearly every story from this era had that problem-- but "Fenric" more than the rest.
Sylvester remains my favorite Doctor. He deserved a MUCH-longer run... and, better writing. The irony of course being, he was ALREADY getting FAR-better writing than Peter Davison and Colin Baker combined.
By the way, in my own stories, I've paid tribute to a lot of different TV shows. I did one story where I "cast" Sylvester & Bonnie Langford. But I also did another, totally-unrelated story, where the main villain was referred to as "Evil from the dawn of time". In my case, it was a story that paid equal tributes to HP Lovecraft and THE OUTER LIMITS. I also "cast" Patrick Troughton, Tom Baker, Colin Baker, Nicola Bryant AND Anthony Ainley in that one. Tom was one of the villains... Ainley was one of the HEROES. "Heh heh heh..." Oh yeah, and Christopher Lee was the voice of the main villain, because I just couldn't think of anybody else. I love playing around with stuff like that.
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Post by dsjr on Oct 17, 2024 18:20:03 GMT
In one of the interviews, the author said he wrote this for eleven to fourteen year olds. Seems a bit more mature than that, even for the time and anyway, their parents would be glued to Corrie in the UK, so the remaining audience (low then but well up to current 'Who levels) were probably die-hard fans in their thirties (I was thirty two then).
There really is but one more to go, plus the TV movie I'm not that sure about. I feel rather sad about it really...
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Post by GC on Oct 17, 2024 20:51:21 GMT
In one of the interviews, the author said he wrote this for eleven to fourteen year olds. Seems a bit more mature than that, even for the time and anyway, their parents would be glued to Corrie in the UK, so the remaining audience (low then but well up to current 'Who levels) were probably die-hard fans in their thirties (I was thirty two then). There really is but one more to go, plus the TV movie I'm not that sure about. I feel rather sad about it really... Kind of feel the same way. For me it's because its the last recognisable proper true Who...
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 18, 2024 0:55:05 GMT
There really is but one more to go, plus the TV movie I'm not that sure about. I feel rather sad about it really... I'll tell you... the last time I watched my entire WHO collection, I skipped a few stories I didn't like or felt I'd seen too often. As when I do it with STAR TREK, it improves the entire series to remove stories I don't care for!
When I got to the end, I SKIPPED the Paul McGann film... and instead, for the "grand finale", RE-watched INVASION EARTH 2150 A.D.
Some things get better on re-watch. Some get WORSE. When something gets THAT MUCH worse on only the 2nd time around... I don't feel like there's any need for a 3rd time. (But, that's me.)
I'd have rather they'd never done it... and then re-started the show in 2005... WITH Sylvester McCoy STILL starring in it.
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Post by Future-Diver on Oct 18, 2024 7:18:57 GMT
There really is but one more to go, plus the TV movie I'm not that sure about. I feel rather sad about it really... I'd have rather they'd never done it... and then re-started the show in 2005... WITH Sylvester McCoy STILL starring in it.
I really like your idea of McCoy returning for a new series in 2005 *, but I still find much to enjoy in the McGann movie. Yes, it contains a lot uncool stuff - the Doctor snogging Grace, American-style humour and the daft magical ending, but despite all that, the TVM still feels more like real, proper Doctor Who than anything from Davies, Moffat or Chibnall. But each to their own... *(minus RTD and the BBC Wales production team, of course).
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Post by dsjr on Oct 18, 2024 13:28:04 GMT
I'd have rather they'd never done it... and then re-started the show in 2005... WITH Sylvester McCoy STILL starring in it.
I really like your idea of McCoy returning for a new series in 2005 *, but I still find much to enjoy in the McGann movie. Yes, it contains a lot uncool stuff - the Doctor snogging Grace, American-style humour and the daft magical ending, but despite all that, the TVM still feels more like real, proper Doctor Who than anything from Davies, Moffat or Chibnall. But each to their own... *(minus RTD and the BBC Wales production team, of course). Yeah, I know what you mean. Can't believe the TV movie was nigh-on thirty years ago now though (I sat behind Ian Levine at the second? Bafta showing and on a video posted somewhere, there's a half-second of me and pal walking past the camera as we climbed the stairs entering the auditorium).
I don't think ANYONE liked the Doctor snogging Grace, yet RTD and all who followed regard this as an essential part of the show these days... P McG has done a cracking good job on the audios though imo, but a tragedy he never got a proper TV series, as his audition tape shows how 'Doctorish' he could be in a more youthful sense at the time. The wife loved Eccleston though and to be fair, the latter did bring back a whole new audience to the show - not all RTD I feel.
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