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Post by Cyggy on Mar 3, 2022 22:56:26 GMT
Please rate and discuss this story here.....
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Post by Cyggy on Mar 8, 2022 6:55:44 GMT
Another one that I saw on broadcast - and enjoyed fairly uncritically - not having a problem with the real building interiors of the TARDIS. I just assumed that the ship was so vast that it was like a huge cosmic mansion, with such rooms and corridors being perfectly logical. It was great at the time to see the Sontarans back too. Especially with such a great cliffhanger ending springing them onto us, the viewers. No spoilers back then! After it was novelised was when I really started to appreciate it, so probably love the Uncle Terry book more than the original show. Finally seeing the show again when it was released onto VHS made me more aware of it's budgetary shortcomings, but I still had no problem with those TARDIS interiors.
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Post by GC on Mar 16, 2022 23:59:15 GMT
All that sticks in my mind about this one is the Doctor acting a bit of a sod, shimmering sheets of Baco foil, cockney Sontarans, Milton Johns great as the weaselly Castellan Kelner, the long runaround inside the Tardis and that sudden silly Leela in luurve with Andrex tacked on bit at the end. I dunno, s'pose it was an ok-ish kind of story.
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Post by johnnybear on Mar 30, 2022 17:23:39 GMT
The story was a bit dull until the ending of episode four and the shock of seeing The Sontarans on the steps brought my interest back to the show with a bang plus it had the older Who theme for the endings of parts three, four and six I recall! JB
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Post by Black Orchid on Apr 3, 2022 12:18:18 GMT
Normally the Doctor is forced to react against an alien invasion or whatever and people die, but it is not the Doctor's fault.
However in this story the Doctor helps the Vardans invade Gallifrey (for reasons I have forgotten), so he is ultimately responsible for all the deaths that happen throughout it.
Milton Johns is superb as the scheming Kelner but unfortunately there are the first signs that Tom Baker's portrayal of the Doctor is becoming a bit silly and self-indulgent.
7/10
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Post by GC on Jul 2, 2022 4:01:00 GMT
Doctor Who The Outsider Episode 1
Doctor Who The Outsider Episode 2
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Post by johnnybear on Jul 2, 2022 7:31:26 GMT
But what happened to the rest of the twenty or so Sontaran clones? Or should I say Sontarian? JB
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Post by sadako on Jul 2, 2022 12:28:53 GMT
But what happened to the rest of the twenty or so Sontaran clones? Or should I say Sontarian? JB Most fan theories suggest that the Doctor's Star of Rassilon gun didn't just kill the Sontaran leader, but outright erased his whole existence from history. Hence he never led the invasion in the first place, and with him gone, the gun itself was never needed and erases itself. To be honest, the TV story never made it terribly lucid. Nor did the novelization, come to think of it.
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Post by sadako on Jul 2, 2022 12:55:10 GMT
I give it a 5.
When I first saw this it was at the peak of my new excitement about the show's 2005 return and I was buzzing for more. Up to this point I'd been revisiting more of Tom's era and come to immediately love The Seeds of Doom and The Talons of Weng Chiang upon discovering them for the first time, and I really was thinking this was an era where you could go no wrong.
Then I discovered this one available to order to rent on video at my local library and was quite shocked at how much the makers seemed to have slacked, and I couldn't understand it. Surely the same makers still knew their craft, so how could they have forgotten how to do this show well so quickly?
It seemed strange how The Deadly Assassin had made the prospect of a menace to Gallifrey seem so urgent and devastating, and surely a major invasion of the planet would be treated the same way. But as it turns out, no. It seemed completely limp and lethargic and to lack any urgency or momentum. Gallifrey seemed to react to its invasion so unbelievably casually.
In the light of the New Series and much of Big Finish, it was also a shock (at the time) to see the Doctor tool up with a gun and start shooting Sontarans. It all came off as very regressive. Especially when Leela and the tribesmen take the capitol and start harpooning guards just for doing their job.
Some moments are just taking the outright piss, such as the Doctor leading them through the same Tardis interior ruins three times.
In rewatches since, however the story is far from without merit. There is a good cast here and some intelligent ideas in there (though clearly it needed several more drafts to be up to snuff). Borusa gets some great moments, as does Leela and Rodan. Infact they kind of make this a lot livelier on screen than in the novelization which is just everything flat and circular about the TV story made blatant.
Knowing the behind the scenes issues of how they'd ran out of money and time, and the chaos and upheaval of how Mary Whitehouse had gotten Hinchcliffe shitcanned the previous season makes me somewhat more understanding of what it was up against now.
A final note on Leela's departure.
It is not implausible that someone of Leela's background would happen to choose her future mate purely on instinct. That is often the tribal ritual, so I can believe Leela would not be out of character to do the same when it came to picking her partner.
The problem is, it's hard not to think if she was going to pick anyone to leave the Doctor for, it would be Cordo from The Sun Makers, who she practically seemed on heat for. Not Andred.
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Post by rapscallion on Jul 2, 2022 15:57:28 GMT
A final note on Leela's departure. It is not implausible that someone of Leela's background would happen to choose her future mate purely on instinct. That is often the tribal ritual, so I can believe Leela would not be out of character to do the same when it came to picking her partner. That's a really good point. I'd never thought of it like that before.
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Post by johnnybear on Jul 6, 2022 15:45:25 GMT
But what happened to the rest of the twenty or so Sontaran clones? Or should I say Sontarian? JB Most fan theories suggest that the Doctor's Star of Rassilon gun didn't just kill the Sontaran leader, but outright erased his whole existence from history. Hence he never led the invasion in the first place, and with him gone, the gun itself was never needed and erases itself. To be honest, the TV story never made it terribly lucid. Nor did the novelization, come to think of it. No I meant from the Doctor Who magazine story... JB
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Post by Cyggy on Jul 9, 2022 9:21:45 GMT
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Post by dsjr on Jan 31, 2024 22:22:00 GMT
I missed this first time round I'm certain, but caught up with it when I boiught the VHS some decades back. Watching it again, again I tend to agree with a lot of what's been said above. I particularly like John Arnatt as Borusa, who has the measure of the Doctor having been his tutor I believe many regerations ago. I did dislike the TARDIS set, the control room as well as the old hospital or whatever it was - totally nuts really, but maybe more interesting than repetitve sets with walls full of roundels? Whatever, it's part of the story and apparently the TARDIS is more than able to alter its layout as well as its decoration, so 'whatever' really. The lead Sontaran actor did try his best I think and it's not as grating as it was when I first watched it. I'm still not sure about Leela and honestly thought she was in the series a lot longer than the nine months she claimed she gave it. It's to be hoped that being left on Gallifrey, the character was able to educate herself and looking at a recent BBC promo vid or whatever it was, I think that could be true. Lastly, am I right in thinking that Tom's ego is starting to grow just a little too much? I've not yet watched the extras, so that may shed more light on the story and the team's feelings about it. P.S. Just watched the extras and hell, I'm upping it to a 10/10 purely 'cos of the pressures the team were under in getting this story out an dhow they tried so hard with lkittle money to make it look effective, old mental hospital and all Gawd this is so much better than the crap foisted on us today. Had RTD got hole of it, we'd have seen Leela and Andred all but making out through half the story!!!
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 3, 2024 4:10:03 GMT
The Doctor REALLY got on my nerves in the first couple episodes of this, the first time I watched. WHAT the HELL was he up to? You really couldn't tell if he'd gone crazy, or was being mind-controlled, or what. Like the best mysteries, it's actually better on repeat viewings, when you KNOW what's going on. Leela was amazing, even when it looked like she was being betrayed, she never lost faith in The Doctor, and she was right. The part where she follows him thru the corridors, and he's hopping and skipping, she KNEW it was his way of saying, "I'm okay, just play along."
John Arnatt was BRILLIANT, and remains my favorite Borusa. I've also seen him as a police inspector on THE SAINT with Roger Moore. He KNEW something was up, but didn't know what. And he was very quick to pick up when The Doctor explained WHY he didn't tell him what was going on earlier.
Milton Johns was so slimy-- a total come-down from the oh-so-likable George Pravda in the previous story. Incredibly, I didn't realize he'd also been in "The Android Invasion" for a long time. I believe he later played Adolph Eichmann in some TV-movie. I can't be sure-- but I suspect Jack Kirby may have "cast" him as "Desaad" in the NEW GODS comics. If not, they certainly do resemble each other. He also turned up as a rather tragic character in a CAMPION story with Peter Davison.
It's crazy how, if you look at the "Gallifrey" stories, they all seem to take place in the same order as the Doctor's adventures, except, FAR MORE time is passing on Gallifrey than it is for The Doctor, as each time he returns, he's going farther and farther into the future. How else can we explain 4 Borusas in the same time as 2 Doctors?
The ending was NUTS. The Doctor may not have had much control over his TARDIS, even at this point, but whatever was going on with the architectural-generation program seemed to reflect The Doctor's chaotic personality. (That's how I see it.)
The Leela-Rodan friendship was delightful. Rodan liked Leela immediately, and before long, it was mutual.
As for Andred, I suspect HE found Leela very attractive, but she was so unlike any woman on Gallifrey, she probably made him VERY nervous! But her instincts no doubt picked up on his feelings, and after he proved he was brave & capable, well, who else was she going to hook up with? The Doctor had made it plain he wasn't interested in her that way. (I think deep down he was in love with Sarah, but he just made up his mind he wasn't going to allow himself to worry about or deal with that. I've ALWAYS felt that way, and "School Reunion" confirmed it for me.)
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